Pet Health

Host: Stanton Shanedling

Co-Host / Medical Advisor: Barry Baines

Production & Research Team: Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, DeAndra Howard

Recording, Marketing & Transcription: Matthew Campbell, Sheridan, and Nygaard

Guest: Dr. Kathleen McJunkin (Veterinarian)

Participant: Clarence Jones

Sponsor: Human Partnership Alliance (humanpartnershipalliance.org)

 

Introduction

Stanton Shanedling: Hello, everybody! Welcome to Health Chatter! We've been on a little bit of a vacation for a while, but our shows are coming into full view these days, and great topics coming forward. Today, we have a great one on pet health and also how the pets can help us as humans with our own health. We'll have a lot of questions. We have a wonderful guest with us today.

And Murphy would be really, really happy—my pooch that passed away back in October. So, somewhere up there in pooch heaven, he'll be listening in as well.

So, we have a great crew. I'd like to introduce all of them: Maddie Levine-Wolf, Erin Collins, Deondra Howard do our background research for us, our production. And, recording is done by, Matthew Campbell. Marketing and transcribing of all our shows, it was done by Sheridan Nygard.

Got a great colleague that's been with me along this whole ride, Clarence Jones, second to none, as is Barry Baines, our medical advisor, who are both on the show today. So, thanks to you guys for all these great shows together, and your friendship along the way.

We have a great sponsor, Human Partnership, is our sponsor for all our shows. Great community health organization that does wonderful things out in the community to help all of us, hopefully, be healthier. You can check them out at humanpartnershipalliance.org. You can also check us out at HealthChatterpodcast.com. If you'd like to listen to the shows, great. If you want to read them, we have transcripts of all our shows on our website, and you can learn more about us. And also, if you have questions, you can put them on the website and we can get back to you as well.

So, welcome to everybody today. Dr. Kathleen McJunkin, who was Murphy, my dog's vet, for many, many years, and she provided wonderful, wonderful care. Very, very compassionate. And whenever I brought Murphy in to see her, whether it be for a checkup or whatever, he was never nervous. He always knew that Kathleen was great and very caring, and he also knew he would get treats, so that was... that was the other... I guess vets know that.

So, welcome to you. So, Dr. McJunkin has an interesting background. She was a clinical laboratory scientist at the University of Minnesota for many years in chemistry and molecular diagnostics. And then, on after that, to veterinary school, and practiced veterinary medicine for 22 years. And I will put in a plug for Blue Cross Animal Hospital on Lindale Avenue where she practiced. And, not only she, but all the... all the wonderful health providers there are second to none. So, thank you for the care, thank you for being with us, and off we go about talking about pets and pet health. So, alright, you know, where to start?

 

Part 1: Pet Food Nutrition and Marketing Myths

Stanton Shanedling: There's many, many questions, but let's start out with maybe an easier one, hopefully. Food. Okay, pet food. Alright, so, you know, for those of us who have a little bit of gray hair, you know, when we were growing up and had pets, frankly, there weren't that many choices for food. You get, you know, Purina Dog Chow, and thank you very much, and, you know, oftentimes... actually, you could get it at a grocery store, wherever, and that was... that was it, you know? So, fast forward, give us your insights a little bit on... on pet food. I won't say dog food, I'll say pet food.

Kathleen McJunkin: Pet food, yes. Well, I'm glad you brought up Purina, because what would be frustrating for me with clients and marketing was that, you know, they always... they go into a pet store and they would have a talk with the people, maybe, there. And these are people that maybe were in high school, and really didn't know, unless they were told, "Oh, yeah, this is a great product, and da-da-da." And maybe... maybe that new product did not have a veterinary nutritionist on board, a board-certified veterinary nutritionist, and that can cause problems, so...

I would tell my clients when we're talking about food that, you know, Purina was one of the originals. They started doing research before, you know, long before all these other places came into effect. And even Dr. Churchill, the nutritionist at the University of Minnesota, that is actually her favorite go-to. But there's a lot of other companies that all I've used, which I'm so grateful for what they have done—it's really addressed so many health issues with our patients—which Hills, which goes by Science Diet. Science Diet is more the prescription ones, and then Royal Canin. And... trying to think of if I'm missing... Eukanuba and Purina, those are the big ones, you know.

There are some ones that do have some veterinary nutritionists that are becoming more popular. I checked with Freshpet; I did find out there is a board-certified veterinarian on board with that, which is good news.

Now, I want to kind of go back a little bit. Pages like grain-free diets became very popular, and that was kind of pretty much developed, probably, for marketing things. And the nutritionists, I think—or not the nutritionists, but people who wanted to get on board with making pet food and thought, "Oh, you know, do pets really need these grains?" We found out, basically, that, really, they do, because of this mistake that went on. And now, there might be some grain-free diets out there that are okay to use.

What happened is—and I had a patient that was lost, even with the help of a cardiologist, and found out later, I'm like, oh my goodness. It was Blue Buffalo that made this grain-free diet. And, you know, they did not do this on purpose, but they just didn't probably have... they didn't have a veterinary nutritionist on board to, kind of, figure this out, maybe, and maybe they wouldn't have. The problem ended up being too many peas and legumes in it, and so they were lacking something, but it affected the hearts.

Now, on another part, these grain-free diets with cats, strangely enough. Which you really think cats don't eat, but they... they will eat grass in the wild, and you'll see grass for cats in the stores that you can actually get. But what I saw with some cats, when they just switched over to this—cats can get, and dogs can get, stones in the bladder, you know, and in the kidneys. And due to these wonderful companies, we have special diets to avoid that. Well, then, you know, they found out this grain-free diet, "Oh, we should try this." And there were a couple of patients I had that ended up having problems with the stones again, because they had switched out of that. And a cat that had never had a problem before, and they went on a grain-free diet, all of a sudden had that problem with getting crystals in the bladder, and then stones, and such.

So, we found out now we had to bring into our... really address nutrition each... each visit. At least find out what they were feeding for the pets, which was maybe a good thing going on when we had that grain-free diet issue, and then we could kinda guide them, you know, to watch more carefully what was...

Stanton Shanedling: Oh, it's interesting. Whenever I brought Murphy into the clinic there, there weren't, you know, 50 different brands of food at the clinic. And it struck me that the ones you did have had a lot of research behind them. I mean, they've been around for a long time, so right. At least from a client perspective, you look at that and you say, okay, look, they've been in this business a long time, and they're still in business. And I'm sure over the years, they've done research and continue to do research. So, there is something to be said about that. So, maybe the bottom line with food is: don't get sucked into the marketing; better to talk to your veterinarian.

Kathleen McJunkin: Yes, definitely. In fact, when I was going through, unfortunately, all this stuff with clients, I, interestingly enough, had one of the clients—she goes, "I just got on... General Mills had bought out Blue Buffalo." And she said, "I just got on the committee to work on that, you know." And I told her the importance of getting a veterinary nutritionist, a board-certified one, and they got one. And I was so thrilled. And then someone else, I said, "I really think it was a marketing thing, what happened with this," and she goes, "I agree with you, I'm in marketing." So, you know, it just goes to show that she realized, "Yes, that's what's going on here."

Stanton Shanedling: Don't get sucked into the marketing talk. Talk to your veterinarian. Yeah.

 

Part 2: Pet Longevity and Dental Care

Stanton Shanedling: Alright, so this is what's really struck me, and I'm sure that for people that have had pets over the years—I'm certainly one of them—what continues to get to me is, okay, look, we as humans have been successful in extending our life expectancies. So what the heck? What's going on with, you know, man's best friend, a dog or a cat? We're not seeing longevity there, unless I'm mistaken.

Kathleen McJunkin: I think you may be, because no, I haven't been in practice, you know, forever, but I've heard through the grapevine, pets usually do not live as long as a lot of them are doing now. And I think a lot of it can be, you know, the diet, or just we're taking better care of them, too. And one... one of the big things, believe it or not, I think, is keeping the teeth healthy, which I think is one of the important things that's happened in humans, you know, probably more in the '50s or something. And I'm not sure where, because my mom talked about, "Well, we didn't really go to a dentist when I grew up." She grew up on a farm and stuff, unless there was a problem.

I just swear that that has kept, you know, these bigger dogs... I had one client who—oh my goodness, I don't think she'd mind if I said this—Chili. Oh, wonderful dog. A bigger dog, you know, kind of 50 pounds, that type of thing, a mixed dog. And Beth was very into getting her teeth cleaned every single year. And she goes, the last time I cleaned the teeth, she was 17, this bigger dog. And she says, "I know she might not make it, but I want to do that," and sure enough, she made it.

And then I saw her about 5 months later, she was just in with one of their other pets, and I could see a big difference in Tilly. And I just warned Beth, I said, "Beth, you know, I'm concerned that life isn't as good with her right now." And Beth had young children and everything, and I said... and it was around the holidays, so I said, "Yeah, you don't want to have any... you know, saying goodbye now, but keep in mind, and pay more attention, and you might want to just kind of, in your mind, kind of set a time where this would be the appropriate thing to do," which she did. She came back in January, just several years ago and such.

But I give her credit with really being attuned to getting those teeth cleaned and stuff. And, you know, just like with humans, some people have really bad teeth, and dogs and cats, and others do really great, and you maybe never have to get serious about cleaning the teeth. But that has made, I think, a huge change in the health and the longevity of a lot of pets, because we see a lot of bigger dogs now living to 15 years and such, compared to more like a 10-year lifespan, 10 to 12.

Stanton Shanedling: That's... that's encouraging.

Kathleen McJunkin: Yes, yes, it is.

Stanton Shanedling: That, you know, and I know Barry has gone through this, too, where he recently lost his pooch. That last goodbye, oh my god. Whether you make, as the pet owner, the decision to have to put your pet down, or whether they die in your arms—which is what Murphy did—it's just, oh my god, you know? You keep saying to yourself, "I can't go through this again," and then, of course, for us as pet owners, you go through it again. But anyway, Barry, what's your thoughts on all this?

 

Part 3: Environment, Cancer Concerns, and Kidney Disease

Barry Baines: Yeah, actually, I would be raising my hand. I wanted to do one more thing, something that... and I know an $N$ of 1 is not good research, but it seems to me that... I know that 3 of the last 4 dogs I had—my first one lived to 15 years. And then the next 3 all died around 10, and all of them wound up developing widespread cancer. And that's what this... And it sort of, you know, just in my observation, I just wonder, environmentally, especially with everybody that wants their lawns green, they use all these poisons on their lawn. And you know, we walk dogs, and they have their little signs up, "Well, don't... we spray to keep kids away and pets."

But I'm just wondering, from the veterinary practice perspective, if there's been an increase in cancer in dogs over the past 20 or 30 years. Because, I mean, obviously everybody... the $N$ of 1, I could be snake bit, and the dogs that I get wind up with cancer. But it just seems that this has also happened with friends of mine, that so many animals seem to be developing cancer, not at the end of their longevity scale that we would suspect. And I'm just wondering if Kathleen had seen that, or what the veterinary research shows on cancer in dogs.

Kathleen McJunkin: Okay. Well, not being an oncologist, I'm not sure as far as the history on whether it has really increased, but the thing is, is that... Barry, can I ask you, what were your pets, your last ones that died of cancer?

Barry Baines: So, yeah, the last three: one was what I'll call a Heinz variety. It was a mix of Border Collie, Lab, Australian cattle dog—it was just kind of a mix, it was a herding breed. And then the other one was an American Water Spaniel, which was like the first dog I had that lived to 15. That dog, Sully, wound up dying at around 10, again with what wound up being widespread cancer, some abdominal source. They couldn't even tell because it was so widespread. And then my last dog that just died a couple of years ago was a standard poodle.

Kathleen McJunkin: Okay, so, did you say the mixed breed one had passed away, or...

Barry Baines: Those three, they did, okay. They all developed cancer, and ultimately, you know, we needed to euthanize them.

Kathleen McJunkin: Right.

Barry Baines: And kind of like Stan, our vet was nice enough to come to our home. We had... well, for one of our dogs, another dog, we wound up doing an exploratory to find out what was going on, and at that time, the vet said there's just cancer all over, there's nothing we could do, so we just asked them to keep him sedated so we can come in and say goodbye.

Kathleen McJunkin: Yes, that is the hardest phone call for a veterinarian to make. I had to do that a few times. So, well, I don't know if this is true or not, but I do agree with the environment, but one other thing is purebreds tend to be more prone to cancerous situations, but also the larger dogs—lymphoma and hemangiosarcoma are very common. Do you remember what your pets passed of?

Barry Baines: Well, I know with Riker, the suspicion was that it was a hemangiosarcoma. But when the vet, kind of... because he had blood in his abdomen, I don't have to get into details here for our listening audience, but that's what he was suspecting. And when he got inside, he just said it was like scattershot all over—kidneys, liver, just all—and he said it wasn't a hemangiosarcoma. I don't know what the pathology was in the other two. But again, one was a purebred water spaniel, and one was, like, you know, a mixture of varieties. They were all, with the exception of the water spaniel, the other ones were larger dogs. My standard poodle was 75 pounds, he was a big boy. And the mixed breed one was also about 70 pounds, so they were larger, larger dogs.

Stanton Shanedling: So did you see, over the years, did you see an increase, Kathleen, in cancer, or is it just what we as pet owners notice?

Kathleen McJunkin: Well, there is a lot. I mean, it was very, very common, and sometimes we suspected it and didn't really know for sure.

The other thing is kidneys—the kidneys failing—which, you know, we'd have special diets, and that can really change that, which I'm kind of surprised. That's a question I have for you, because I had a brother-in-law who had a cystic kidney disease, okay? It's a familial thing. Fortunately, Jim doesn't have it, but he went into renal failure and such, and Jim actually donated his kidney to him. But he also ended up with a terrible aneurysm, had first surgery, and the second surgery... then he ended up passing through that. But I was surprised, because I asked Kevin, "Do they restrict your diet or anything?" and no restriction or any of that.

So I'm surprised that there isn't with humans, and I'm just kind of assuming that, because our neighbor next door, he had to have a kidney transplant, too, which seems to be a lot of people, you know. But that, you know, do they have research on kidney disease as far as whether they should be restricting our diets? It's usually...

Barry Baines: Yeah, I'll put on my medical hat now and just give a brief piece on it. Basically, the most common cause of kidney failure is long-standing high blood pressure (hypertension) and diabetes. Okay, so it becomes more of a vascular cause of kidney failure. That's the number one cause by far. The polycystic kidney issue is one that, obviously, is a genetic kind of thing, so you kind of are aware of that.

And the thing is, regardless of the cause, there really isn't necessarily a need to do restrictive diets until your kidneys get... if they're still functioning well, and there are easy blood tests they can do. But once you sort of get to that tipping point where having too much... the kidneys can't handle and process protein in particular. So, very often, and other things—like I say, I'm not a nutritionist describing kidney diets—but as kidneys are failing, diets do get quite restricted. But as long as the tests are showing that the kidneys are functioning pretty well, there's not a need to necessarily do that, but the monitoring periodically, you know...

Kathleen McJunkin: Oh, sure, right.

Stanton Shanedling: Is that the same with pets? I mean, you know, is there an... is it analogous to what we're seeing in humans to pets, or maybe not?

Kathleen McJunkin: Well, okay, the blood pressure, you know, with the kid... well, that's kind of hard to say. So we will, if it looks like things are going, you know, that are being affected, those diets seemed to just keep them where they were at, and I don't know if it helps with blood pressure. You know, that is one thing I must say that we're not good at taking the blood pressure immediately. Getting our pet's blood pressure taken and stuff, it's one of those things—gotta get them calm.

And I know my own blood pressure, I just had to have a check, and of course, it starts out high. Fortunately, I do have it in the normal range, but it's like one of those things that we should be better at doing, and I think they're trying to get to know... so, I mean, we can watch it, but that's where the blood work, when it just starts showing them, it's like, okay, then we'll... that's unfortunately when we'll check the blood pressure, and such.

Stanton Shanedling: What's a normal blood pressure for a dog or a cat?

Kathleen McJunkin: It varies. I'm not going to give you numbers right at this point, because truthfully, I'd have to look at a chart, because it varies with breed, you know, and sizes of the dog. Cats, you know, they're all in one position and stuff, but yeah...

 

Part 4: Diabetes, Human-Pet Lifestyle Tandems, and Pet Costs

Barry Baines: Yeah, I also have a thought, though, the blood pressure part, but I'm thinking particularly about diabetes. Because one of the things that I read about—this is interesting—is that people who have diabetes, their pets are also more likely to develop diabetes. And I'd have to think that diabetes, physiologically, probably impacts kidneys in a negative way the same way as humans. And I know numerous people whose dogs are on insulin and all kinds of things like that. And some of that potentially gets back to some lifestyle things, and diet and nutrition things. Not something like people give their dogs ice cream and candy, and other things, but again, it's not a causative thing, but just like people who are healthier, their pets seem to be healthier. And kind of that interaction gets people and pets, hopefully, in tandem, living longer. But people who have more chronic diseases, especially diabetes, it seems that their dogs develop it, and I just don't know if that's a diet...

Stanton Shanedling: You know, I always say everything in moderation. Yes, me too. And, you know, it's interesting, you know, ice cream...

Kathleen McJunkin: My favorite...

Stanton Shanedling: You know, it's good for us humans, it's good for our mental health, you know, and so...

Kathleen McJunkin: Thank you! Yes, Stan!

Stanton Shanedling: Yes, yes. And so, you know, to a certain extent, that's something that we don't necessarily think of with pets—okay, something makes them happy, okay? So, I mean, we have to... so I gotta... our research gang, and then... well, actually not, it was just Sheridan that put together some research. I found this really interesting, some of these things that she brought up: 68% of households in the United States have a pet. Okay, now, you know, that's kind of more generic in the sense it could be a dog, could be a cat, could be a guinea pig, could be, you know, whatever... something, okay? So that was interesting. We were spending close to, you know, well, it's probably around $2,000 a year annually for our pets. Which I'm going to get into a question regarding that.

But, you know, one thing... there's a lot of research that's going on continually on the effect that pets have on us as humans. And, you know, I made a distinction—everybody says, "Oh, good companion," you know, they're constantly wagging their tails, they only think in the present, they don't think in the future, they don't think in the past, they're right there with you. But for some of us, and I can speak personally, for some of us, there's a notch higher than companion, and I call it a soulmate. And we really... I have found, you know, even with friends and family members, colleagues who have pets, they talk differently about their pets than they do about the human interactions that they might have. There's a calming aspect to it all, and so there's something to be said. I can speak from just personal experience.

So, one thing I want to talk about as far as costs, okay? It can get expensive. Your pet can get expensive. One thing that I noticed that I didn't when I first had my first pet is insurance.

Kathleen McJunkin: Oh, yes, yes.

Stanton Shanedling: Okay, so talk a little... your perspective on pet insurance.

 

Part 5: Pet Insurance and Medical Savings

Kathleen McJunkin: Yes, well, okay, so when I was first in practice and I asked my boss about pet insurance, you know, what he thought about that—so that was in 2003. And this is what he had to say; he'd been in practice a long time in the previous years and such, and he said, "Well, I like to tell clients, the money that you would be putting... giving to a pet insurance company, make your own pet fund. Put that money each month into it and do that, so you basically have your own funding, like you would do for your house." You know there's gonna be problems, and you need to basically save for that.

Now, back then, there weren't that many insurances around, but I heard that in Europe, almost every owner had pet insurance, and it was a really good system there. And I think that may be coming into play now in the United States. There's a lot more choices. If you're going to do pet insurance, which is really, probably a really good idea, you need to research, because I had one client come in and she had an insurance—and I can't tell you which one it is right now—but Blue Cross, they tried to have on the website a comparison chart to go through that.

Well, one of the things they have, you know, like this was a problem in human medicine: pre-existing conditions. And yes, I had a problem with that with myself when I tried to get on my husband's health insurance so I could cut back on work, and they didn't want to cover my psoriasis. So I increased my hours so I could keep insurance going on—that's when I was in one of the labs.

But anyways, her pet that she had on this insurance had skin issues, basically allergies and stuff that would cause a lot of skin issues, and the company, each time, would call that a "new event," and so they'd have to start from scratch as far as, you know, the deductible, which is very, very frustrating, so you have to really watch out for that.

Now, my father sold life insurance and such, so I'm a big pro—I'm pro on insurance, really, as far as that goes—but it's something you have to really research carefully. A lot of these companies that hire a lot of younger people, like my son, my oldest son—through his company that he works for, pet insurance is one of those things, so now he could get it at a very reasonable rate through that, so it'd be kind of nice if that's an option for more people in their jobs, you know.

Stanton Shanedling: In general, do you... given where care has come for pets, do you recommend it? Having insurance?

Kathleen McJunkin: We do want people to be aware of it. Awareness of it. Okay, to make their decision and such, we don't go say, "Hey, you need to get pet insurance." I think that needs to be their decision. But warning, I still think Dr. Klausman's recommendation on making your pet fund—so you're saving up while they're healthy and when they're in their younger ages—so that you have that money set aside when you get... because it's gonna happen, with all of us, something is gonna happen as we get older and our bodies wear out, you know, and such.

Can I just step back for just a brief second?

Stanton Shanedling: Sure.

Kathleen McJunkin: The healthier humans seem to have healthier pets. Right away, I was thinking about those, like, we are both going out to work out when we get done with this, and owners who are walking their dogs more and such. And some will even walk their cats on a leash and stuff, and I think, you know, just playing with their cats, giving them more exercise so they don't get obese and such like that, that makes a huge difference. And mentally.

In fact, when I had way too much going on—this is before I went to vet school, working full-time, 3 kids, getting them to all their sports and all this kind of stuff—and I was feeling, "Whoa," you know. I called my doctor's office and said, "God, can I have my annual sooner?" and they said, "What's going on?" and I said, "I'm just having out-of-my-mind thoughts, you know, waking up like I feel like I'm looking down." And so I spoke with a nurse psychologist, and she said... I thought I needed to cut back on my bowling, and she says, "No, you need to schedule more time for yourself, and you need to burn off..." She says I was in flight versus fright all the time. And I increased my walking, and that has been such a huge benefit to my life, and I tried to get that... The last doctor I mentored, I said, "Hey, you need to do this, you know." And at Blue Cross, they'd go, "Okay, I'm going for my walk now," and they'd go, "Oh, you must be going, you know."

Stanton Shanedling: It's true that our pets are intuitive. If somebody says in the yard, I'll have a long discussion with them about that, but they pick up on our psyche. And they'll come and look at you as if to say, "Okay, come on, it's time to go for a walk, okay?" And it doesn't necessarily have to be the typical time of the day that you would normally go on a walk. They can almost look at you and say, "Hey, come on, break time. Let's do it, okay? Let's go look at the leaves falling from the trees or something." And there is a calming effect, and I can speak from personal experience on that.

So, alright, I got some other things that I can talk about. With my pooch, I went on travel excursions and trips together. We went to national parks, state parks, all this good stuff. And what I have noticed is the apps that you can get for your phone now that have pet-friendly parks, or you can go on the app and say, "Okay, where can I take my dog for a walk?" Pet-friendly hotels, motels—which I think is wonderful, you know. Okay, I'm going to X, Y, or Z, and all you have to do is say, "Hey, what hotel allows pets?" and also even restaurants. So, the technology in that sense is helpful.

Kathleen McJunkin: Oh, definitely, definitely. Fun stuff, like you were talking about. Yes, yes, I had some other clients, too, that always took their pets and stuff, and they have a wonderful time. All the hiking, they went to national parks and...

 

Part 6: Orthopedic Issues and Spaying/Neutering Decisions

Stanton Shanedling: So, orthopedic... and cats, and guidance, or whatever, okay. You know, for humans, I can speak for myself again, you know, I've had knee replacement. Okay, but we also see orthopedic issues for dogs and cats, so let's talk about that a little bit.

Kathleen McJunkin: Yeah, so... saw much more in the dogs. Very rarely did... but yes, I did see a couple of things in cats that had to be taken care of, but with the dogs, the cruciate ligaments are the biggest things—torn ACLs, basically, yeah. And, of course, the larger dogs. Smaller dogs, it would be patella luxation and such.

But with some research goal from years, they kind of felt like, because we wanted to spay dogs by 6 months to decrease the chance of mammary cancer—which was really proven to be the case—found out that maybe that's where part of the problems with the hormones weren't in long enough to really secure those ligaments and stuff. So, we had to change and make this discussion with owners with their larger dogs regarding: do we wait until, you know, 18 months, 20 months to spay their female dog to have a better chance of having sturdier ligaments and stuff in their knees or stifles, and then increase that risk of mammary cancer? And boy, talk about tough decisions on that, you know, regarding that, because oh, they get mammary cancer, and that is really tough to... Yes, you can do surgeries and stuff, but it's more likely... at least with the knees, you can repair them.

You know, what we'd have to discuss if they did go ahead and spayed at 5-6 months before they had their first heat, you know, have to be very careful keeping the weight down, exercising, walking, of course, the best thing to keep things straight. Avoid that fetch—fetch, yes, that's a great, fun thing to do, and good exercises, except for the fact that they would stop suddenly and turn to catch, and there it is, the ligament is torn. Which you can, with rest and stuff, if it's minimal, you can get it to heal on its own. I did have some dogs that, you know, they wanted to wait and see, and they would do fine. We try to put them on omega-3 fatty acids to help the joints and such, too. That is one of the things the surgeons did like.

So, like, when my daughter-in-law, she had to give up a lot because she tore her ACL—I think she said it was somewhere between 2 and 4 times from playing soccer—and she told me it really hurts when it happens, but then it's more of a functional thing after that and stuff, so...

Stanton Shanedling: And, you know, the animals have four legs. You know, they can compensate a little bit easier than we as...

Kathleen McJunkin: Well, that's true, yeah, and they can, you know, usually they can get back into using it, so it's a lot of care, you know. What I would usually do, if I saw a dog that was suspicious—maybe had a mild thing where they stopped using it a little bit—I would give them the exercises that the surgeon would have for post-op, and I said, "You know, let's rest a little bit, and then try doing these exercises to see if it would help." Now, there's some dogs that just end up... some even had surgery on both knees at some point, so... yeah, so...

 

Part 7: The Pandemic Impact and Final Takeaways

Stanton Shanedling: You know, there's so much in the area of pet health. Also, you know, for those of us that are in the public health and medical fields, during COVID, when COVID hit, pets really meant a lot to people. It really did, because human interaction was compromised and your pet was there for you, one way or the other, and that was meaningful.

Kathleen McJunkin: And a lot of people got their first pets then during that time.

Stanton Shanedling: Exactly, yeah.

Kathleen McJunkin: And part of that was actually, they go, "Oh my goodness, now that we have to be home, we can actually get that puppy going," and all this, and there kind of became a shortage.

Stanton Shanedling: Exactly, right. And also, you know, we're seeing more workers today doing their work remotely, and so that, too, can also lead to increased pet ownership as well.

Well, this has been wonderful. I, you know, we could go on and on.

Kathleen McJunkin: Yes, yeah.

Stanton Shanedling: So, Dr. Kathleen, a couple of takeaways that you would really want our audience to know about as far as pets are concerned, based on your experience. Tell us.

Kathleen McJunkin: Okay, well... I definitely... the best thing ever for people and families to have that companionship, that unconditional love, is so tremendous. And, but there are responsibilities, and your responsibility is to realize that this is going to be a cost, and you need to prepare for that, and you need to save for that.

And also rescuing pets, getting a mixed breed for dogs—I'm really a proponent of that, because we had that brief talk about the cancer, and I mentioned purebreds are more tending to get cancer than the mixed breeds, okay? And listen to your veterinarian, not the pet stores.

Stanton Shanedling: Yeah.

Kathleen McJunkin: Yes, yes.

Stanton Shanedling: That song. I did, I did.

Kathleen McJunkin: Oh, and it's... that's one of the reasons why I had a hard time deciding to retire. It was really tough, because this whole veterinary field, with all the clients and the patients, was a big family to me. And I'm actually so glad we got to see each other, and I'm going to be stopping by Blue Cross probably on Monday for a couple of things. And I'm hoping to walk the neighborhood, so I might run into Beth and some of my other clients, too, because I would do that, and they'd go, "Oh, there's my veterinarian!" and I'd love to see them, yeah. So... and I've told them, watch for me, because, yeah, yeah, so... it's special.

Stanton Shanedling: Special, it's special.

Kathleen McJunkin: It is, it is. I am so grateful. Thanks to my husband that I had this opportunity to change careers, because when I met him, truthfully, I had decided having a family was more important than to file... to actually go on my first dream and such, which was... I wouldn't trade my family for anything.

But they all have pets, which is why we don't have ours, because we have... well, we had 7, but now we have 6 grandpuppies, and last weekend we stayed with 4 of them, and this weekend we get 2 of them! I'm so excited!

Stanton Shanedling: Wow, wow, wow.

Kathleen McJunkin: So that family... they are family members.

Stanton Shanedling: Family members.

Kathleen McJunkin: Yes, whether they're two-legged or four-legged.

Stanton Shanedling: Exactly, exactly.

Kathleen McJunkin: That is just the best part of life.

Stanton Shanedling: Yeah, yeah. Thanks so much. Barry, thoughts?

 

Conclusion

Barry Baines: Just, you know, when you get a group of people who love pets, just keep talking about it, and there's, you know, I think just a lot to consider in terms of the pet health thing. And I think most vets are much more attuned to, especially the nutrition piece and some of the exercise piece, and they're just... they're a great resource.

And like I say, you develop a relationship with a vet the same way you would with your own primary doctor. And so those kind of things are important. And, you know, it is getting to be more and more challenging—less people are going into veterinary medicine as opposed to more. And clearly, if you have a good vet, make sure you keep her, or him. Most of us these days are... there are more women in veterinary medicine right now than men by a large score, so...

Kathleen McJunkin: Yeah.

Barry Baines: That's good to get, you know, to get a veterinarian perspective on pets, because obviously we just like to run around and have fun with them. And the flip side, though, is that they do need to be taken care of, because they take care of us, so that's... those are my ending thoughts.

Kathleen McJunkin: Oh, yes, yes.

Stanton Shanedling: Just as we as humans want to make sure that we have good... we have good, trusted relationships with our healthcare providers, we also need good, trusted relationships for our pets with their veterinarians. So, trust in care goes for them as well—goes for our pets as well.

So, Dr. McJunkin, thank you, thank you. This has been really, really wonderful. I am sure that we're going to get a lot of comments about... about pet health, and so, consequently, it might lead to another show.

Kathleen McJunkin: Okay? That sounds good, and... and I know this isn't possible, but are you gonna open your hearts to a... I gotta tell you, there's a new Murphy down at the end of our block, and already we have got a bond. I've just met him once, and I thought of you right away.

Stanton Shanedling: Oh, my God.

Kathleen McJunkin: Goodness, Murphy... us, and I think he's actually got some of his soul in your Murphy.

Stanton Shanedling: You know, I will tell you this, for people that have gone through pet loss, a dear friend of mine just lost his pooch, and he called me, and he said, "Stan, I'm having a hard time." And I got together with him over lunch, and we just shared good stories together—that really helps. That really, really helps. He wouldn't let me pay for lunch; he called it a therapy session.

Kathleen McJunkin: Yes, but I had a neighbor too—one thing you can think about—that she would pet sit for when she lost hers and decided she couldn't get her own, you know, with travel and stuff, she would pet sit then for them.

Stanton Shanedling: There you go.

Kathleen McJunkin: And there, you know, and that is a really good opportunity. Like, I've got my grandpuppies, and I get to take care of them, and that is so exciting for us to be able to do that, and for our family, yeah, so... so...

Stanton Shanedling: Thanks again. Thanks again. We have a couple of great shows coming up in the queue. We're going to be doing one on early-onset colorectal cancer, which we're seeing many, many younger people getting. And also, we're going to be doing a show on childhood trauma, given all the things that are going on... us in the community. Clarence, you there?

Clarence Jones: hey, Kathleen, I really appreciate you. I don't have a pet, but I knew that Stan and Barry would definitely handle this conversation, so I had a couple different challenges, but I do appreciate it, and I do like the idea—I mean, really, I do, I appreciate the idea about when you talk about diabetes, you know, how our pets affect our lives. And I think Barry sent that article in about living longer, and all this kind of stuff, you know. So maybe I'll start with a goldfish, you know? Maybe there's some pass-through things that might help me, and if my goldfish gets sick, I'm gonna call on you.

Barry Baines: Yeah, don't...

Kathleen McJunkin: Okay, don't.

Barry Baines: Take it for a walk, Clarence.

Kathleen McJunkin: Okay.

Clarence Jones: Appreciate you all. Thank you.

Barry Baines: You can go to... you can go to a swim together! There you go.

Stanton Shanedling: All right, everybody, I want to thank everybody for being on the show today, for our listening audience, thanks for listening in, and everybody, keep health chatting away!